Meeting 17

Berry, To answer your post #11, obectjs aren't passed in Java. That's just the way it is. References to obectjs are passed.There is simply no way to pass an object by value *or* by reference the same way that it is done in C++. It does not exist. The only analogue that is correct is passing a pointer to an object by value in C++.To answer your post #12, I have no idea what the fuck that means. Presumably, you are wondering if Object o(); makes sense as creating by value, i.e., is there automatic storage in Java.Yeah, yeah, I know. You understand what pbv means and were just throwing out a hypothetical question, trying to shed light on the debate and why people are confused.I too would like insight on why people get confused It helps me to teach them.But ultimately, the distinction between pbv and pbr and then the same thing for pointers is something clear, concrete, unambiguous, and really, it should be expected that anyone competent can go and grasp this within a half hour at the very very most.I call it Incredulous's Litmus Test To Weed Out People Who Learned To Program By Permutation Alone .